TC Boyle on Trump: “He blamed himself for the shooting”

TC Boyle is considered one of the most important writers in the US. A conversation about fascism, the working class and hope against hope.

Tom Coraghessan Boyle, born in New York in 1946, lives in California with his wife and three children Photo: Photo: Lukas Schulze/imago

weekday evening: Mr. Boyle, In Pennsylvania, an assassin’s bullet narrowly missed Donald Trump’s head. Afterwards, many thought: Oh, if only he had scored. Can you wish for Trump’s death?

TC Boyle: I’ll answer this in a very political way: He blamed himself for the shootings in Pennsylvania. The Republicans are the party of the gun craze. They don’t want any control. They also want to get rid of the laws that still restrict automatic weapons today. I recently posted a photo of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert – two of our noble members of Congress. They both pose with the same AR-15 rifle that the shooter used. And hasn’t Trump repeatedly incited political violence? And tried to overthrow the government by unleashing a mob on the House floor? Maybe he’s getting some of what he always wanted.

Trump is not back in power yet. It would not have been a tyrannical murder.

But we are very afraid that he will come back. Biden is one of the best presidents we have ever had. He led us out of the disaster that Trump’s first term plunged us into. But he is very old and the debate now is only about how he is seen on television. All people see is an old man fiddling around on television – and on the other side, the great American hero. Trump with his fist in the air now looks like John Wayne, who can’t be stopped by anything.

Real?

I hope the voters stop him, or we will face a dark, fascist future for America. Do you really think the man who tried to overturn the last election will even allow another one? Russian soldiers are writing Trump’s name on the bombs they drop over Ukraine. Because they want him back in power. He would allow his role model Putin to completely destroy the country and turn it into a slave state. I can imagine a lot of things, but nothing is scarier than what is happening now.

How could Trump be stopped using democratic means?

Because some of the people who voted for him the first time are now voting against him. The problem is the American electoral system, the Electoral CollegeMy vote here in California, population 39 million, is almost meaningless. The vote of someone in Ohio or one of the outlying states counts a thousand times more than my vote. These states have much smaller populations but can send a disproportionate number of voters. The worst presidents we’ve had in recent memory—Bush and most recently Trump—did not have real majorities. The right has exploited the flaws of the Constitution and taken over the Supreme Court. I see no way out—unless all the liberals stand up. Women saved us in the 2022 midterm elections. That was after the Supreme Court ruled that states could decide what a woman can do with her body.

After Biden’s defeat in 2020, we thought Trump was done as a politician.

After the Beer Cellar Putsch of 1923, everyone thought Adolf Hitler was finished. But he came back in the 1930s and came to power through legal means. That is exactly what could happen here.

What went wrong?

Trump is spreading racism and hate. The US has changed radically in the last few decades. We are no longer a predominantly white, Christian nation. This is disturbing to white Christian nationalists. That is why they support Trump no matter what. The evangelicals are behind him. Despite the fact that no one can be less Christian and evangelical than he is. It is about their agenda, which is to crush liberalism, destroy multiculturalism, and create a kind of apartheid state in which a small minority of right-wing, armed thugs control the rest of us.

What about the Trump voters who aren’t committed racists?

They fall for the propaganda. That was also the case before Trump. The Republicans were shouting: Get rid of Obamacare! But if the health insurance that Obama had introduced were no longer available, who would pay if grandma got sick or the child had an accident? They don’t know what’s good for them and vote against their own interests. Trump also puts on a lot of show. We know this from fascist governments in history. After the assassination attempt, people are now saying that this man was predestined by Providence. It almost seems like a religious movement.

What would be different during Trump’s second term?

The first time he was running for re-election. But now the Supreme Court has given him virtually impunity. There is nothing he can be held responsible for as president. Not for any crime, not even murder. So he has a free hand. And he learned from his first term. In that time he still had people in his administration who believed in democracy, the Constitution and the laws. There will be no more of that. The goal is to destroy democracy. I hated Nixon, I hated Bush. Because their policies are the opposite of mine. But at least you could survive her presidency. This is now a grab for absolute power.

What mistakes have the Democrats made?

We Democrats are fools. We believe in law and order. We believe in the Constitution. We believe in human rights, women’s rights, environmental protection, and all those foolish things that don’t matter. The only things that matter are guns and combat boots. Trump makes no secret of the fact that he uses Nazi expressions in his speeches. “They’re poisoning our blood,” he said about immigrants, for example. He tells us exactly what’s coming: the press will be suppressed. All the people who tried to prosecute him for his crimes must be arrested.

Are you afraid?

Yes, terrible fear.

Also about your way of life and your work?

Once this election is over, I won’t be able to do these kinds of interviews anymore. It will definitely take a while to get there, but eventually it will happen.

Trump is old too.

I doubt Trump will be out of office in 2028. He will find a reason to continue as president. And he will live forever. I think of the novel by Garcia Marquez, The Autumn of the Patriarch. Garcia Marquez experienced this in Colombia when he was growing up there. In the novel, the dictator is in power for as long as the oldest person who lives there can remember. Then one day the dictator dies and everyone is dancing in the streets. You feel free. But the dictator didn’t really die. It was just his doppelganger. He filmed everyone dancing to see who was celebrating — and then had them all thrown in jail. And here we are.

Is Trump also the revenge of the people who feel left behind in the so-called fly-over states?

That is absolutely true. We live in a high-tech world, a world where you need a college education to get anywhere. And that leaves a large part of the population behind. They are angry about it. You see immigrants coming in and taking jobs away from them. And here I agree with the Republicans, by the way. We need to close the borders, we need legal channels for immigration.

This makes lefties sit up and take notice…

I am the man who wrote America in 1995; the novel is a cry for compassion for all people. And yet: we should not allow illegal immigration, because it makes legal immigration a joke. But which party takes care of the workers, which party gives them higher wages, which party gives them social security? It is the Democrats. Workers vote with Trump against their own interests.

They come from the working class themselves…

Yes, and I spent a lot of time in the Sierra Nevada, in a working class community. I love these people, they love me. But we don’t come together when it comes to politics. All they know is Fox News. You don’t have anything else. They don’t travel to other countries. They don’t read anything. They only know the propaganda that’s being fed to them. We’ve reached a point where there are no more facts, only opinions and propaganda. All of these factors are a real witches’ brew for the future of our democracies. Not just the American ones, but yours too. If Trump is re-elected, every living being on earth will suffer because the US will then say goodbye to all of Biden’s green initiatives.

The climate crisis is also the subject of her novel ‘Blue Skies’.

America’s contribution to global warming and pollution will easily double under Trump. And the Supreme Court has also limited the ability of federal agencies to take action against polluters. It will get warmer. The water will get more polluted. All the endangered creatures we are trying to save will become extinct.

When people say the presidential race is over, isn’t that a self-fulfilling prophecy? A lot can happen between now and November.

A tough question for a cynic and know-it-all like me. I mean, we’re talking about what will happen if he wins the election. But I have to have hope. And something that gives me hope: the majority of Americans are against Trump. But will that be enough to keep him out of power?

On the Democratic side, the voices are getting louder and louder, calling for Biden to be replaced by a fitter candidate.

I hope that will happen – and that it will happen quickly. There are so many great young, energetic people who could beat Trump. Gretchen Whitmer, Gavin Newsom. There have been a lot of surprises lately, maybe there will be a few in our favor.